What the everliving fuck is wrong with people?

They… like to be completely obvious stupid trolls?

(“Science does not yet understand the root of this urge…”)


I wish there was a secret symbol to show others that you’re otherkin irl. Like, you could draw it on a button and wear it when you go places and then individuals you meet who are also otherkin would see that you’re otherkin, too and then maybe finding irl otherkin friends would be easier and a lot less awkward.

Well, there’s the acute seven-pointed star (septegram/septagram/heptagram, elven star, faery star)… but while it functioned as a sort of general symbol at least around the late 90s/early-mid 00s, and originated with the Elf Queen’s Daughters IIRC, nowadays I hear many folk saying they don’t like it much or don’t identify with it, that they feel it is specifically elven or fae and it doesn’t represent them, being of some other kind (pun not intended).

If you are thinking of otherkin as including therians (definitions may vary), then this particularly applies to therians, who have their own symbol (the “theta-delta”) - though not every therian agrees on that, either - and often either reject or have never even heard of the idea of the seven-pointed star.


I really need to stay out of the kin tags.

Ya, pretty much. I untracked #otherkin a few weeks ago; just couldn’t take going through all that every day. Every now and then I skim a couple pages’ worth of posts, but argh bloody argh. I do still track #faekin and #elfkin, though, just in case.


In response to the ‘wolfkin being the most common kintype’ thing, I did (got dave to do) a short survey of 303 kintype entries (~36 separate kintypes) found here on tumblr. In conclusion the six most common kintypes are:

  1. Fae - 10.5% of the entered kintypes were fae (32 entries)
  2. Space - 6.9% of the entered kintypes were space/star based entities. (21 entries) This does not include alienkin, but encompasses starkin, nebulakin, etc.
  3. Dragon - 6.6% of the entered kintypes were dragons. (20 entries) This includes all types of dragons.
  4. Dog and Cat tied for fourth place; both at 5.9% of the surveyed kintypes and 19 entries a piece. This does not include all types of canines but the ‘cats’ category includes both domestic cats and domestic cat hybrids. 
  5. Demon - 5.6% of the entered kintypes were demons (18)

Beyond that there were…

Read More

How or where exactly were these 303 “kintype entries” found?


The unicorn community began in 1998 with the creation two different websites.

The website, Always Believe, began on May 17, 1998 having been created by the unicorn, Fadeyr ny h-Emshir (then known as Avenger at this time). He created the website not knowing if there were any other people who…


Interestingly and strangely, neither Wilkmon nor Fadeyr had any knowledge of each other at the time of creating their websites. It would not be until some time afterward that they would run across one another.

Is that enough cohesion to really be called a “community”, then? Sounds like “in 1998 some personal websites of unicorns began to appear on the internet” or something, to me. I understand there have been a few unicorn-oriented forums, but I’m just not sure it qualifies as its own separate community in the way one can trace activity of weres/therians and draconics…?




I got called a fluff bunny by someone who considers themself an ‘elder otherkin’ yesturday. 

Me. A fluffbunny.

I am amused. 

Apparently they read the first two lines and then said, too long, didn’t read, and called me a fluff bunny. 

Amusing, that.  And a sad state of affairs really.

Oh well! 

Wow, wtf. Is this re: the thing you wrote about on LJ?

No, different situation, this one on the Facebook otherkin group.

…there’s an otherkin group on Facebook actually worth being a member of? I’ve found fifteen and almost all of them made me run screaming (setting aside the fact that I would not really want to join any of them for privacy reasons anyway).


Topical Tuesday: Nomenclature, Otherkin and You!



“It’s now very common to hear people say, ‘I’m rather offended by that.’ As if that gives them certain rights. It’s actually nothing more… than a whine. ‘I find that offensive.’ It has no…

Yeah, I kinda went way off on a tangent there! I do still have some posts saved where this reply might have fit better. Sorry about that!



Lately I have been hearing a lot about appropriation. Especially related to Otherkin and claims of trans species and species dysphoria. Now, I have talked to some people about this, and it seems that it started out with this intent. People trying to appropriate trans and dysphoria for their own negative purposes.

Still, I find myself confused and at an impasse. I am, at my heart, an author, and am therefore a big fan of words meaning things. As such I am unsure of what to do here. While the original intent of the terms trans species and species dysphoria were possibly meant as being appropriative, does that mean that we must discard the words with their meaning and seek other terms?

…I don’t think that’s how appropriation works. It’s not something you commit by intent, having “negative purposes” (desire to harm whoever is being appropriated from); it’s largely by ignorance. The person doesn’t recognize there could be a problem. They see something useful or cool and they pick it up, divorced from its context, generally because they are in a position of privilege that means they don’t have to consider that context. At the end of the day they could drop the word or the artifact and it could become meaningless to them, whereas for the group appropriated from, that’s not possible, because it’s woven into their life from their experiences or culture.

In this case, I don’t think there’s a power imbalance between trans folks and otherkin(/therians/whatever) just on the basis of those two things taken alone. Trans folks certainly face a far different (and worse) set of societal problems because they are trans than otherkin do because they are otherkin, but it’s not because otherkin are supported in the system as being “above” trans people - it’s because cis people are in that position. So if otherkin/therians/whatever should not use “trans-species”, I think it’s not because “otherkin appropriated it from trans people” (otherkin obviously are not monolithic WRT cis/trans), but because cisgender people maybe shouldn’t talk about being trans-anything. (NB, not saying whether I agree or disagree, just laying out something I think would be logical there.)

On the other hand:


Trans is, after all, a prefix meaning to cross. So a transgender person, like myself, is crossing from one sexual identity to another. Likewise, a trans humanist is someone crossing over to something beyond what humanity is, so, even though the term was originally intended as appropriative, trans species would mean to cross from one species to another. The same can be said of dysphoria. It is a clinical term with valid meaning indicating a deep emotional and psychological discomfort with something, or some aspect.

…there is also this argument that nobody can own a root-word that also combines happily with other things. (Actually, now I’m curious: has there been opposition to “transhumanist” from transgender people? The word in its modern sense apparently originated in the 1960s.) Conceptually there are clearly some parallels, even if they cannot be “compared” in the sense of saying they are very similar to one another. (“Compare” also has more than one sense, and depending on which dictionary you consult, the meaning “to examine in order to note similarities and differences” may be primary over “to consider or describe as similar; to liken”. I think we sometimes get into trouble in conversations like this when people hear sense 2 where someone intended sense 1.)


It seems that we have a choice. As society continues to evolve and as we grow as a community and sub culture Otherkin is getting more and more attention from psychologists, psychiatrists and the larger community of people that we are all a part of. As this becomes more of a reality we have some hard choice to make. These terms, no matter what their origination in use, follows standard nomenclature for what could be eventually a DSM V diagnosis for Species Dysphoria.


Most of the uses of “trans-species” and its ilk that I see nowadays come from outside, yes, scholarly papers and such. They could get established whether we will or we nill.


Anonymous asked:

i'm ignorant about this, but what is the difference between therian and otherkin? is there a difference? i never heard of either before today and i went onto the otherkin tag and half of it is just really nasty and mocking and so i'm having trouble getting a clear picture of if there's a difference/what it is.



I’ve never heard of therian before, but i just used the internet and found out that therians are a kind of otherkin. :3

otherkin believe that their soul is wholly or partly something other than human. maybe several somethings other than human. there are lots of different reasons that they might think this is possible. 

therian are the same as above, but specifically they believe they have the heart of a certain animal. 

Thanks for helping anonymous. :)

To add some information, therians and otherkin once were mostly distinct communities - the otherkin can be traced back to elves (Silver Elves?) in the 70’s and then included mostly mythical creatures, while therians originate from Alt.Horror.Werewolves in the early 90’s and focused on extant and extinct animals. Nowadays though there is a significant overlap between the two communities.


The Silver Elves were one of the earliest groups to be public about being elven, yes. Their predecessors were the Elf Queen’s Daughters, whose writings in Green Egg are the oldest print evidence we currently have of people calling themselves “elves” (at least in the way the modern community means it). While I think it’s likely other types existed, even if very scattered, at the time, it’s the Silver Elves’ Magical Elven Love Letters that really loom the largest until Elfinkind Digest spawned the term “otherkin” in 1990, to refer to the non-elven types that had showed up even though Dara originally thought she was only going to find other elves. The fact that they showed up early on in the life of the digest suggests they pre-existed, even if they did not already have have coherent communication between themselves at the time. (Beats me if there was a draconic analogue to the Silver Elves and their Letters in the 1970s-1990s, for instance.)



“It’s now very common to hear people say, ‘I’m rather offended by that.’ As if that gives them certain rights. It’s actually nothing more… than a whine. ‘I find that offensive.’ It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. ‘I am offended by that.’ Well, so…

I can’t speak for the otherkin community, but in the therian community the term “transspecies” (or other variations) has been used every now and then since the 90’s, and not with malicious intent. In fact, over the past 20 years, people who have used the terms of “transspecies” or the concept of “species dysphoria” were often trans as well.


FWIW — and I still need to reply to the sizable handful of posts on the topic of term usage and otherkin/therian crossover back in the day that I’m still sitting on—when I was trolling through the elven-realities archives looking for cites on that topic, not counting a few cases of people quoting other posts, I found just 7 uses in the 66-67k message archive, almost all in 2000, the last in Jan 2001. Feral (a windigo, who I gather was more in with weres then, but did merrily cross back and forth) is the first in March 2000, saying she[?] used it for herself before she happened on the the term “otherkin”, and that she has heard it “more often” than a different term, “misincarnate”, which she attributes more to the “furry lifestyle” community. A few other people, including ones I know to be elven/fey-type otherkin, one host of such, and one I am not sure about, picked up on it and used it about once each in that year. Suffice it to say, it doesn’t seem to have caught on there. (In April 2002, which is the very last similar cite, someone posted a roundtrip English-French-English Babelfish translation of a page on Otherkin.net that resulted in the word “Transport-species”, so possibly the term was used on that page at the time. http://www.otherkin.net/otherkin/what.html - it isn’t now.)

"Species dysphoria" - someone else responded to the March 2000 post with this term, and that same person used it again in another post 2 months later, but that’s it for that term (aside from one person — again a fey/elven type — quoting that second post and saying “so there’s a word for it!”).

WRT Feral’s usage, however, it should perhaps be mentioned that she appeared to play rather fast and loose with her terms, even moreso than others at the time (see below), and she may not be very representative. The oddest examples that stuck out to me were:

(Jan 2000) …weres, for example, often describe being otherkin as “one’s spirit-self” or “therianthropy”…


(same Mar 2000 post as above) In the were community, at least, “therianthrope” is used as a catch-all term for animal-folks and, on occasion, for otherkin in general (there aren’t a lot of fae in the were community that aren’t animal-fae—not a lot of elves an’ all—but a fair number of “animal” folks who dance on the edge of traditional “were-ness” like dragons and gryphons and the occasional windigo like me…

At first glance the idea of weres/therians using their term (therianthrope) to mean “otherkin in general” seems very odd, but it sounds like Fer is saying that people who did so were only meaning to include theriomythics and not really considering elves/fae/angels/whatever (which raises the question - if such people used therian and otherkin interchangeably but not to include humanoid types, what were we?).

Anyway, as I said, I want to work up a cited post on it, but when I did it originally last week my browser crashed at huge memory usage from opening and closing a gazillion tabs of Yahoo Groups messages and my right wrist protested loudly against the idea of doing it again. So briefly, the overall picture I got from elven-realities ca. 1999-2002 (usage falls off, but then, the point here is to look at how it really was further back, not to prove what we already know about the more recent climate) was that people, at least the population of that list, were less concerned with the possible differences we are discussing now, and happier to throw therian/were/shifter into a litany of things that might also include furries, vampires, and anything else even slightly “non-mundane”. However, as participation by self-identified weres/therians made up only a small percent of list traffic, it amounts to otherkin, in this case a lot of elves and the like, saying “yeah, therians/weres/shifters are a part of us”, and it’s hard to judge whether those folks at the time agreed or not just from the evidence there on that list. (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but it’s hard to make a case from it alone, I think.) I would be interested to research term usage in similar email lists for weres, as I assume there were some at the time. (I assume Jarandhel or someone has already poked around AHWW?)







All this talk about otherkin and therian communities histories and overlap between them makes me want to write some long rambly thing about my initial introduction to the concept of otherkin and then…

I guess my dream term would be something that does not involve “-anthrope” or “-kin”, but use something else entierely. :P

Right, yeah. I think we’re running out of word roots though, heh. People probably would not agree to a term that was based on “spirit” because so many don’t frame it spiritually. I had animus in mind when I said that, find it a little ironic that psyche, the root of “psychological” which in these nonhuman communities we often contrast to the “spiritual” or “soul-based” type of explanation, actually means “soul” in the first place (nous is mind).

Alloiousia? allo- + ousia, “being, essence.” lol. Looks pretentious and I have no idea how you’d pronounce it. I’m forming that off a real mouthful of a word that I did not know existed until just now, homoiousian, “of the same essence”. (Though I suppose that would contrast better to heteroiousian? We probably would want to avoid hetero/homo in this too. Hm.)

Easy to get lost in etymological fun here. spiritus-sonne tried a lot of Greek (which of course is where therion and anthropos come from) and Latin; I wonder if anyone has similarly tried to mine English, which is what other and kin/kind are? Old English had several verbs for being, like sindon and bēon. Unfortunately for the cause of trying to divorce a hypothetical new term from all four particles so that it doesn’t seem to be rooted more in any one part of the communit(y/ies), oþer survived into modern English unchanged except for spelling (“Othersindon”? not very satisfying).

Anyway, not trying to suggest any of that seriously, just playing around and wondering if anyone had tried it.

(Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal)

Heh. I am not much one for the ” ‘aliens’ is just a modern way of interpreting what people used to call ‘fairies’ ” thing, but this does kind of remind me of a trope often underlying otherkin folks’ worldview or personal mythic histories, this idea that the “magical world” with other beings is purposely hiding itself from humanity, or at least drifted apart and used to be more closely entwined with this ordinary world. Compare Lupa’s recent post on A Sense of Natural Wonder: My Little Planet: Nature is Magic.





All this talk about otherkin and therian communities histories and overlap between them makes me want to write some long rambly thing about my initial introduction to the concept of otherkin and then coming across the terms of otherkin and therianthropy, some of my time spent in otherkin spaces and spaces more specifically for therians (but not exclusive of non-therian otherkin), and views I’ve had and kept or changed over time relating to matters of “therians as a kind of otherkin”. Not really to ‘prove’ something conclusively this way or that, but just to get that stuff out there, outside my mind and some people could read it out of intrigue or whatever. Though I don’t know if I’ll stay motivated long enough to actually get such written, nor where exactly all I’d post it if I did write/finish it.

That and I might at some point write a little blurb of sorts to post somewhere on those “allokin” and “alloanthropy” terms I coined either last year or the year before, especially since I’d like to get myself more accustomed to using them and thus using them more in some of my writings.

I’m curious about your allokin/alloanthropy terms! I’d certainly read your writing if you decided to develop the subject. And in particular, I wanted to ask about the issue of having either term fall more on “one side” or “the other” (allokin -> otherkin, and alloanthropy -> therianthropy). I was wondering if that would defeat the purpose of an umbrella term, if they look attached more to one community or another? Wouldn’t it be the point to have a word that does not re-use the existing category and dichotomy “therian VS otherkin” to suit the purpose of an all-encompassing community?

Personally, I have a preference for using allokin and it’s likely to be the main or only one I’ll use when I do get myself to use the alternate (to otherkin) term more often. But regardless, they are meant to denote exactly the same thing (unlike the terms of otherkin and therianthropy) so if ever a significant amount of people took to using these alternative terms, either or both, it would be ultimately, to say it bluntly: stupid to use the ‘kin one as different and separate from the ‘anthrope one (now that would be some major arbitrary line-drawing).

People are free to use whichever, or both, of them, and they are free to not use either of them. I just ask that if people do decide to use either/both of them, to keep to their essential meaning and to treat the ‘kin and ‘anthrope versions of the word as synonymous. But yes, you brought up a good point that I should make sure I address in that blurb/writing, whenever I make it.

Thank you for your reply! Maybe I wasn’t very clear about my question actually. I think what I meant was something along the line of “do you think the term “allokin” could be interpreted as coming from the otherkin community (because “-kin”) and so not feel representative of a larger, therian+otherkin+? community, and that it could be problematic to its “mission” as an umbrella term”?

And the reverse can be applied to “alloanthropy” but my point isn’t about the fact the two words may be used not as synonyms, but more about the fact that even if we were only using one word, it may still sound more rooted into a community than another because of its sonorities.

I wish there was a non-ambiguous umbrella word that didn’t seem attached to one community more than the other (“non-human” could work, but I don’t find it accurate for a number of us; some people don’t feel they are human, but others feel they are at least part human, etc.).

I agree that -anthropy and -kin would seem more rooted in one or the other, just because of their sound.

I’m not sure the sense of the allo- element is quite right for this purpose. Compare allophones, variations on a phoneme (like aspirated and unaspirated), allotropes, differing forms of something like carbon -> graphite or diamond, or allonym, the name of another person that is not one’s own (similar to pseudonym, but not fictitious). It doesn’t mean the thing being spoken about is other than whatever the second particle is - “an allophone is something that is not a phoneme at all” - so alloanthrope parses to me more as “a kind of man that is different from some other kind of man”, rather than conveying the meaning of being somehow not (hu)man in the first place. Allokin is difficult to understand, in that light. (“A kind of kin that is different from some other kind of kin”? If so maybe you could say that otherkin and therianthropes are “allokin” of each other… heh.)

But I digress and maybe am being too picky. (Who, me?) I do wish we had something that would fill the same void as “nonhuman” but could be agreed upon. Le sigh.



This is the original picture (found with tin eye):


desc says “It was your typical fur con. Everyone in the Therian panel was having a great time talking about their inner animals…when all of a sudden one person started to change, then the next person…and so on…”


I guess we’ll never know.

In the otherkin community there is the trope of “the Veil falls and magic comes back and everyone regains their true forms.” (Something that tends to get eyerolls these days whenever someone posts “Do you feel a change/a war/something coming? I do…”) It might have had more currency among the older were community vs. modern therians?

(Source: bicolorcattherianjack)